Giulio B. pre-practice journal

[limbic]

I wonder what swimming meditation would be like for you

[Russell]

NOTE: James, I moved your post to your practice thread. Giulio, see here for post: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=61#p1893

[Giulio B.]

Thank you very much L.

About changing position, I've been reminded about the existence of walking meditation by a few people as of now. I'm going to try.

Something that would fit a blog post, but anyway: today, exactly 48 hours after the previous mood-down cycle I had another one starting at approximately the same time (17.45) and ending at approximately the same time (20). The brain then bounced "upwards" like the previous time. This predictability is very interesting and gives suffering a meaning...

Continuing with the 30 minutes. I can feel the "muscle" is getting stronger but at the same time i feel more or less stuck on this (superficial?) layer of mind. I'm self-confident and looking forward to adding another 30' in the morning, and daily practice also. This would happen at the end of the month only if I respect the daily schedule (1-day repaid debit is ok). All of them are of course forced (self/socially imposed), I don't take pleasure in doing it. In the following days I'll be recording my noting and see if there are repetitive patterns (I'm just curious, honestly...).

[limbic]

My emerging idea about insight practices is that if they are attempting to observe processes that are themselves atrophied and disrupted without the concern of doing anything about the diminished state, the resulting insight will be much more difficult to obtain. If this is true.. then it's important to notice that sitting and walking meditation are modes of physicality that are close to normal every day activity - sitting down, walking around. Then the solution may be to do meditation with activities that directly observe the impeding area of experience

This comes from the impression that a certain baseline of balance in the bodily experience is pivotal to reliable insight. If one's life is disrupted to the point of much frustration, I think it could be highly advisable for them to seek out new ways of feeling their physicality, ways of exercising their sense of relating to space and breath

I'd like to hear anyone's thoughts concerning this idea

[Ona]

Limbic - Perhaps a spin-off thread would be good, so as not to clutter up Giulio's journal? The forum could use more new topic-specific threads anyway, and if it's in the General Dharma section everyone will see it and can join in.

[limbic]

Oh I remember with wetpaint no one seemed to pay attention to that. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought I remembered there being posts in practice journals that while they were an aside, they were relevant to the practitioner. I posted it here because I thought it was relevant to his practice. Sorry for intruding

[Ona]

My emerging idea about insight practices is that if they are attempting to observe processes that are themselves atrophied and disrupted without the concern of doing anything about the diminished state, the resulting insight will be much more difficult to obtain. If this is true.. then it's important to notice that sitting and walking meditation are modes of physicality that are close to normal every day activity - sitting down, walking around. Then the solution may be to do meditation with activities that directly observe the impeding area of experience

This comes from the impression that a certain baseline of balance in the bodily experience is pivotal to reliable insight. If one's life is disrupted to the point of much frustration, I think it could be highly advisable for them to seek out new ways of feeling their physicality, ways of exercising their sense of relating to space and breath

I'd like to hear anyone's thoughts concerning this idea

Then I'll just reply here.

So is what your saying more or less this? That if one has trouble being mindful during day to day moments when one happens to be walking, for instance, then walking meditation is particularly beneficial; or if one has trouble being mindful day to day when sitting, then sitting during meditation is particularly beneficial?

[limbic]

Hmmm, no; I was thinking of something else..

First I want to say that I'm having difficulty finding the most optimal vocabulary for expressing my idea the way I would like to, but I think it will come across mostly.

Part of the thought was that sitting and walking meditation would be an inefficient approach to progress. If someone's experience of life is hemmed in by restricting variables, then simply noting what is there at the moment is a very tall order. I don't think it's true that you should just understand that the practice is about being with the present moment. That may be true at an advanced level, but you have to get there for that to be relevant.

In order to do that you should acquaint your mind and body with a pattern that makes a good substrate for direct insight. If one doesn't experience their every day life in what could somewhat be called a full way, they won't have this. The direct sitting or walking meditation will be plagued with doubt, not about whether insight is real, but doubt about the accuracy of the notes. About the conviction of the realness of the sensations. You can "just note it"...

Or you could try to build your relationship with your physicality so that what you are noting is more convincing. You can do practices that will make your physicality more salient so you will have the resolution necessary to observe it with proper sensitivity and depth. You can impute mindfulness into the difficult areas, overcome boundaries, enhancing your mindfulness in general, and eventually making direct insight practice plausible

[Ona]

Part of the fun of discussion is to work on developing different ways of saying things to each other, practicing "optimal vocabulary".

So what seems key to me from what you said is that when you try to do noting practice, you are not sure what to note or how to note, because you are not sure what you are feeling (in terms of either body sensations or mental activity)? And that doing physical practices like yoga, swimming, exercise, etc may help to develop more awareness of the sensations of the body/mind, so that your noting can be of better quality?

Can you give a concrete example? Such as if you feel an itching sensation on your left knee, noting "itching" seems in doubt? or is the doubt about what to note not related to physical sensations but only to mental activity, such as not being sure if you should note "doubt" or "annoyed" or "impatient" etc because it isn't clear what you are feeling without thinking about it a lot (by which point the moment is gone)?

[Giulio B.]

Edit: changed idea. The questions weren't that important...