NickP's practice notes

[JLaurelC]

I do not think it's backsliding. See how the next days go. Sounds very much like review.

[NickP]

Cautiously optimistic.

Just sat for an hour, started very clearly at mild A&P, then things lost clarity and I so wanted to give up sitting after 25 minutes (checked the timer to see how long I'd have to put up with this torture), then nice EQ groove for a while, culminating very clearly at 45 minutes in the same event as on Tues and Weds. It's unclear to me whether what came after that was a mild A&P or I just stayed in EQ.
The "technique" I used for the sit was inspired by this section of MCTB:

Do you cycle naturally through the cycles of insight from stage four to eleven and then attain Fruition? If you just sat down on a cushion and did nothing special, would you move through these stages as easily as falling down a hill? Do Fruitions arise after such cycles in a way that fairly consistently leaves you with the staggering impression that, “that was it!”?

So I did that, just sat on the cushion not trying to do anything special. As in, not powering up the concentration, not noting. Just observing in a relaxed way mostly visual and tactile sensations mixed with some sounds and thoughts here and there, which is what came up naturally. Trying not to script it, just allowing it to do its thing. And the above happened.
So, it wasn't as easy as falling down a hill, but I didn't apply much effort this time. I don't know what a Fruition is, but this event (lasting some 30 seconds) that arose three times this week does leave the impression that it contains one. So, if this is a Fruition, I was expecting for it to change the energy patterns immediately, but it doesn't: it takes a couple minutes for them to change. It leaves me with a buzzing sensation in the crown and waves of coolness descending from it down to the forehead, for more than an hour. And it wipes away all tiredness that might have been there before. During the event, there was the impression that there was energy travelling up (or down, it was unclear) my spine. The heart was less crazy this time round, but still beat fast. I have no idea at what point, if any, the blip occurred.
If the blip that happened yesterday at my desk was a Fruition, then it didn't have an entrance (three doors) or exit, things felt normal before it, and normal afterwards, except maybe for the buzzing energy rushing to the crown. So I wonder how one can have a Fruition without going through/perceiving its door.
I'm having some more aversion to meditation than last week, much more aversion to meditation marathons like the 7 hours I did last weekend, and continuous rapid-fire noting which used to be a breeze is now quite hard to sustain. Right now, I just want to get on with my life and gear down on meditation, but I will eventually walk this path to its very end.

<unproductive rant>
One of the biggest obstacles to my believing that I got Stream Entry on Tuesday is that, if it was, I'd be disappointed with it. Yeah, thoughts are not seen as self, but that quality is so not "in your face" that I could be scripting it all. Perhaps I'm not seeing that big a difference because the process of disembedding from my thoughts started long before Tuesday's event, and there was already little self seen in them. But I was expecting profound obvious insights and they never happened or I never really recognised them as such. I was expecting to see and recognise "formations", and as I write this I don't have a clue what they are. I was expecting (after reading the text I quoted) for the effortless-sit-ending-in-Fruition to be a daily occurrence without regard to my hearing lots of distracting loud noises from the street while meditating (like on Thursday) or being very tired and sleepy (like yesterday), but it wasn't that effortless to repeat the experience. Yeah, I feel the mood swings more than before, but those may as well be due to external factors. Yeah, I can play with jhanas and on Thursday I tried 2J-->4J-->1J-->3J with good results but they felt forced, and anyway there was a time in December I was able to do that convincingly enough. I suppose I always held this romantic idea that if I was enlightened I'd "know" it in my heart. I assumed the formless realms would open up. I expected to be able to call up a jhana while walking down the street. And I expected for concentration to get stronger. It is strong already, but not noticeably stronger than before.
So yeah, it seems this is Path according to the two stronger measures (effortless sits from A&P to Fruition - assuming that's what it is-, and self-view dropping away -assuming I didn't script it all- ), but all the sudden perks that countless other yogis got together with the attainment are either absent or in doubt. Which makes me question much of this stuff. If this was indeed Path, I hope this serves as a tool for other yogis to adjust their expectations.
</unproductive rant>

[Rod1]

Hi Nick,
I just went through a similar pattern of experiences about 5 weeks ago - and was left with the same questions and confusion you have stated in your last post. I got 3 blackout blips over 2 weeks. 2 first in the middle of a really intense meditation after an energy build up the day before. The 3rd was just like the one you had at work - except I was just getting out of bed - fully awake, hadn't been meditating and had a blackout blip - followed by a small tingly wave but not much (like a really small 2nd jhana tingle). The next day had a massive A&P (I think) event. Trying to fit this to the maps is really hard and could suggest lots of things including path. I have not had a blip since, I have always had easy access to jhanas - so no difference there - so like you, no sudden perks! Over the last few weeks since then, everything has flattened out and but for having faith to continue, (as you can see from my log) which has really brought up more questions about where I am, I really felt like forgetting about practice and just getting on with the rest of my life. Except now I realise that things are better - there is less suffering and less dissatisfaction and this is probably why I felt like just carrying on with my life because comparatively, there is less to stress about! So maybe that feeling is an indicator of a big baseline shift in itself?- you don't need the medicine when you don't feel so sick right? So still don't know if I got path but not too worried now, since there is progress. I have read on DHO that some people don't realise they got SE until months or a year later and there is one piece of advice I found that suggests not to claim it till a year and a day after the proposed time (I think Nick Halay mentioned this?). I felt like - after all the effort getting to this milestone (SE) it's hard not to feel like there should be some fireworks or a party or something. I have no idea if its ahead of me or behind me but the expectation of it was just causing me stress and negativity. So I am just continuing to practice and still highly motivated. I really admire your dedication and practice and have benefited from your advice so certainly don't consider that I have much to offer (hell I don't even know where I am ) but I can certainly empathise and hope that you find this helpful.

[Russell]

<unproductive rant>
One of the biggest obstacles to my believing that I got Stream Entry on Tuesday is that, if it was, I'd be disappointed with it. Yeah, thoughts are not seen as self, but that quality is so not "in your face" that I could be scripting it all. Perhaps I'm not seeing that big a difference because the process of disembedding from my thoughts started long before Tuesday's event, and there was already little self seen in them. But I was expecting profound obvious insights and they never happened or I never really recognised them as such. I was expecting to see and recognise "formations", and as I write this I don't have a clue what they are. I was expecting (after reading the text I quoted) for the effortless-sit-ending-in-Fruition to be a daily occurrence without regard to my hearing lots of distracting loud noises from the street while meditating (like on Thursday) or being very tired and sleepy (like yesterday), but it wasn't that effortless to repeat the experience. Yeah, I feel the mood swings more than before, but those may as well be due to external factors. Yeah, I can play with jhanas and on Thursday I tried 2J-->4J-->1J-->3J with good results but they felt forced, and anyway there was a time in December I was able to do that convincingly enough. I suppose I always held this romantic idea that if I was enlightened I'd "know" it in my heart. I assumed the formless realms would open up. I expected to be able to call up a jhana while walking down the street. And I expected for concentration to get stronger. It is strong already, but not noticeably stronger than before.
So yeah, it seems this is Path according to the two stronger measures (effortless sits from A&P to Fruition - assuming that's what it is-, and self-view dropping away -assuming I didn't script it all- ), but all the sudden perks that countless other yogis got together with the attainment are either absent or in doubt. Which makes me question much of this stuff. If this was indeed Path, I hope this serves as a tool for other yogis to adjust their expectations.
</unproductive rant>

Actually that is a pretty productive rant. Expectations are very interesting aren't they. Nothing is ever exactly like you think it will be. Also, it is best not to judge/compare your experience against others experience, because as certain things line up, its not always the same depending on how long you have been practicing and many other factors.

Daniel, for instance, is very, very technical and has a way to describe this stuff in such detail that not many will be able to perceive all the small little nuances that he experienced.

All of this is so much more ordinary than your expectations make it out to be. It changes you forever, but sometimes in ways you can't even put your finger on. You know something changed, but you can't necessarily explain it. Give yourself some time to let it settle in, as for me it was almost unsettling at first. Here is my experience from my old log: http://kennethfolkdharma.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2&start=90#p107

[JLaurelC]

@NickP: I do so understand your sense of confusion. One thing I learned is that Daniel's highly technical accounts do not match everyone's experience. So don't tie your brain in a knot trying to reconcile what happened to you with what you read there. Second, the impact of this shift is not immediate--although parts of it are, mainly the shape of your sits. This definitely sounds like review. But days, weeks, months ahead, things change. The changes are sometimes subtle, sometimes immediate, but always profound, in ways you can't predict. So cool your jets and see how all this unfolds. And I say this not as a reprimand, but as encouragement. This process is different for everyone.

I can tell you that I was frustrated for awhile that my day-to-day patterns tended to have a stubborn resistance to whatever change I thought I'd encountered. But now, looking back, I am beginning to feel the overwhelming sense of peace and acceptance in a way that I never understood before. Example: I am sitting here doing my income taxes at the last minute, as usual, and there's none of the usual sense of stress and miserable self-loathing ("oh I'm such an idiot!") that I'd always had as an undercurrent to this process. So whatever else is happening, keep practicing and watch events unfold. I am right now deeply happy for you!

Edit: Russell, obviously great minds think alike!

[NickP]

Thank you all for your words, they do clear up lots of things and set expectations in a more realistic way. I guess I'll have to wait until my guard naturally lowers to understand the full effect of this in my life. Right now my guard is up, and I'm still unconsciously watching for all my mental reactions to confirm or refute SE.

At a conscious level, I'm now more certain that it was Path. Two days in a row sitting in good conditions resulted in this event repeating again and again. Yesterday I set the timer for 45 minutes, but gave up after 35 minutes pretty blissed out after 2 of these events. It's curious, no two of them are exactly the same, but they share some qualities that make it clear that they are events of the same kind. Not necessarily talking about the blip itself (which I can't pinpoint), but rather about the entrance and exit. I'll wait until my chat with Ron on Thursday to confirm Path to call these events Fruitions.

Laurel, I now understand when you talked about the Ferrari. I didn't do a samatha sit yet, but yesterday I paid attention and saw for the first time how little noise there is when I sit.

[viktorvnh]

@NickP: Yes, lowering the guard is my main thing right now as well... I'm also in kind of a confusion whether I'm in stream entry or not, and the past two days I've been using the strategy "I don't care"... I don't care if I'm in stream entry or not. Kind of just being aware of everything that comes up effortlessly... the eager and willpower to get somewhere surely is powerful tool too, but I have noticed how it's very effectful to just let go of that sometimes. I'll post the video that Russell posted in his log a few days ago (I think) - what Kenneth talks about here, I think, is a very good thing to give some balance to the willpower and the eagerness to make progress...

http://kennethfolkdharma.com/2011/07/ma ... f-failure/

[NickP]

Thanks Viktor.

I'll stop using conditional language, not because I'm 100% sure but because sentences get unnecessarily longer. Obviously all of this is still subject to my humongous confirmation bias.

Letting it sink in. Watching myself with joy as the second dart doesn't get fired when I'm in the gym. Lifting weights is painful enough in itself, and only now do I realise how much added suffering there was while doing it. Watching myself with joy as anxiety doesn't arise when I speak to senior managers at the client's. I think I should do some public speaking to see how I react, that'd be interesting. Haven't noticed mood swings in the last 3 or 4 days.

Still meditating a minimum of 45 minutes a day. Zero desire to do it, but no aversion. I do it out of habit, and seemingly, things keep moving. On the cushion, it seemed consistent with Review Phase B. Sat for 45 minutes, technique was "letting it be". The stages up to Fruition were rather unclear, the beginning felt like a mild A&P, DN and EQ were too blurry to be recognised, and then only found something familiar in the entrance to Fruition. Although this time I stayed at the entrance for 3 or 4 minutes instead of 30 seconds as the last few times, and then backed down. It kind of wouldn't make sense to speak of an exit. This happened twice in tonight's sit. The heart didn't bother to speed up, the spine didn't feel like it was active, the bliss-out was pretty cool for a few minutes and the buzzing energy and coolness around the crown still are still intense after 1.5 hours.

So far, never noticed the blip during meditation. Just saying, not worried about that.

I'll have to say I'm confused again, I thought that Review Phase B started at 1st ñana (per Kenneth, in Nadav's log, 2011-04-12).

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1, repeat

[NickP]

Nothing better than a refreshing Fruition to power through the work day. That is, time-to-fruition is getting shorter, initially 45 minutes, now short enough to fit comfortably in my lunchtime sit (15m).
Starting point? Unclear, might be 1st as well a veeery mild 4th ñana. I'm terrible at mapping this stuff. But feels more like review B than A, ie no A&P after the Fruition.

Assuming Sotapatti, and all the other boring disclaimers.

[NickP]

Ok, concentration is actually stronger. One of the 15-minute sits with the vipassana group I spent doing samatha, and whereas the territory I went through isn't clearer or more advanced than ever before, things require a lot less effort. I'm not willing to put in that much effort yet, I'll just wait until I naturally drift past Review.