Great to have the new platform – thanks Kenneth and all who worked to get this happening.

So I am unsure as to whether I should bring over my practice journal or just start here and continue on – a fresh start might be good.

So at this point – I am pre-path and pretty sure I am pre-A&P. I have been able to get to 4th Jhana (I think thats what it is) and routinely get into 1st and 2nd Jhanas to refine concentration and now am dropping into noting in meditation once that is done.

Off the cushion practice is noting as much as I can and pulling myself back to it through the day with HAIETMOBA as a reminder statement. My working day is very busy and diverse so I am finding it hard to keep focus and always concerned I am falling backwards. My daily practice is:

* Morning meditation, yoga stretches and 85 pushups

* During day is noting as much as I can remember to and general contemplation on mindfulness objects when I am not noting

* Evening yoga stretches, meditation before sleeping.

Even though I am highly motivated to continue practice and deal with the slow times etc, at the moment it is hard to meditate as deeply as I was around Christmas because I get pretty tired from work and in the mornings my mind is really hard to quieten down whereas before I had very strong concentration. There is progress happening, but its fragmented at the moment.

This topic was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by Rod1.
February 1, 2013 at 5:44 am #1066

Rod1
Member
Update 01/02/2013

Things have settled down practice-wise. I managed to equilibrate to the added distractions being back at work and am now getting two focused meditations a day – mostly sitting rather than lying down. Had a great first session with Kenneth and that helped me to do shorter more effective meditations with Jhanas. Now I can drop into Jhanas quickly and the time meditating is spent more efficiently – I can get straight to 4th Jhana and set up a stable ‘platform’ for mindfulness/noting etc. without the usual 2 hours or so of fiddling around trying to work out which Jhana I am in and trying to ‘experience’ it extensively to prove to myself I am actually in it! Sounds crazy as I try to explain that! I will continue to improve my technique here.

Off the cushion noting is ok but I would like to be more rigorous with it. From what I have experienced with Jhanas and what I am reading about other people’s experience with key milestone events on the path such as A&P and stream entry etc, it seems that the recurring theme is letting go. I do find that the more I let go during meditation, the deeper I can go particularly with Jhanas. So I am generally trying this in all things to see if it has an impact on attaining insights and progress – interesting to try because I can see that it is hard to let go of what you haven’t realised you are holding onto (if that makes sense). It certainly makes me feel good in general so that’s a plus. In a pretty good space and highly motivated – not sure where I am on a map really but I guess I will know if something significant happens and maybe if I ‘don’t care’ (let go) all will be revealed.

February 7, 2013 at 3:58 am #1139

Rod1
Member
Update 07/02/2013

Continuing to refine Jhana skills, and continue noting. This week has been working on 3rd Jhana as I found that hard to distinguish from just a milder 2nd Jhana and exploring its inherent characteristics. Also trying to get to 4th at some point in the sit to experience the calm and try insighting whilst there.

The main issue has been work and uni demands – pretty tired but if I can get the time, meditating helps refresh. Yesterday had a longer sit in the morning and went in to work later – the sit was scattered, unfocussed. All day I had a dull headache and felt a little sad again (this happened a few weeks ago just for one day except without the headache) and as before, it was not all consuming – I was able to just watch it and not be involved. I very rarely get headaches or feel sad (without a strong reason – which there was none) so these are notable. It occurred to me that maybe I am cycling through DN then up to EQ and back down again. I can get very intense Jhana experiences so it might be hard to distinguish them from A&P….or maybe its just part of normal practice. Not sure but generally feel even and calm and happy.

Had a good sit last night and this morning and felt great today if a little removed from things. This morning got into 4th Jhana territory (or a state of very calm equanimity with no feeling of body connectedness and expansive horizontal awareness which was great. I tried to expand my attention in a 360 deg radial horizontal format as far beyond my ‘visual field’ as possible. It started to feel infinite and at that point change was occurring, I felt lighter, as if lifting of the ground. At this point excitement rose slightly and I could not penetrate any further – I wanted to let that settle but ran out of time. So will try to return to that point again over the next couple of sits as it was interesting and seemed to be some threshold and I feel instinctively that I should push through it.

So as before, applying the ‘don’t care’ approach and just keeping going (‘don’t care’ doesn’t mean slack practice – diligence and effort are strong). Every day is a little different and interesting and from that can assume progress is occurring.

February 14, 2013 at 6:18 am #1218

Rod1
Member
Update 14/02/13

Something has changed/shifted this week. Last few weeks, practice has been up and down with good meditations and difficult ones (see practice log) – you could say its been ‘rocky’. Then on Saturday night I started to really focus and sit in 4th Jhana (or what I think it is). after that sit everything became really easy. I could get into 1-4 Jhanas very quickly and they were well defined and I had more control without much effort. Monday morning had a great 4th jhana sit and pretty much walked around all day feeling really balanced and calm almost like I had a protective coating on while I was highly productive in what was a really busy day. Its been like that all week. Tuesday night (typically 16 hr day with work and uni after) normally wipes me out but this time I felt calm and alert all day and night and was able to get to 2nd Jhana sitting on the bus! Today had a flight for work and both there and back got into 2nd Jhana during the flight and then used the afterglow concentration to note. I wanted to understand if sitting in 4th Jhana correlates to being in equanimity since the MCTB maps indicate its similar mind strata and if so how can I use it to advance since its really pleasant and stable and peaceful. There was some talk about it on DHO indicating it was possible to cover the 11 Nanas from the 4th Jhana which may minimise the DN.

Last night I was meditating lying down and was in 4th Jhana and must have drifted off then woke up to an experience of something like a light switch being turned on and off repeatedly causing my eyes to blink really hard in sync with it and involuntarily – this happened for a few seconds I guess then things settled down and I was back awake. Maybe this was just a sleep/waking thing – not sure.

All this has sharpened my curiosity about where I might be i.e. how far from Stream Entry I may be and thus what I might do to assist the process in my practice.

Noting is going on but I still am not as diligent with it as I could be. I try to maintain momentum through the day with small HAIETMOBA intervals. Found some helpful advice through non-dual awareness blog as well which could be another tactic for daily practice.



February 28, 2013 at 4:10 am #1371

Rod1
Member
Update 28/02/2013

Very interesting couple of weeks. After the last post, the following week showed that I had reverted to struggling through the week in my daily sits and noting was also pretty poor. So after a rough week, I decided to step up the noting and really focused on it over the weekend and by Sunday night I was getting into 4th Jhana again. Reading other peoples questions on DHO I think I finally worked out what is going on! Doh!! and feeling pretty stooopid.

So in my sits I am going through Jhanas but it seems also I am tripping through the nanas as well – this occurred to me when I asked the question about some really intense pinprick itching I was getting on my face through stages of meditation. In one sit it was so strong that it jolted me off balance! I asked the question and the answer was 9th nana with a quote from sagely text as backup and another person stating they were experiencing the same thing. Then it all seemed to make sense. In my sits I am tripping through the nanas as I weave my way through Jhanas reaching equanimity at 4th Jhana which depending on how strong it was, I am swapping between 11th nana and 4th Jhana…..I think! If correct, this is amazingly helpful to me.

So over this week I have been focusing my sits on getting to 4th Shamata Jhana and equanimity? strengthening it so my ‘centre of gravity’ is there and this might set me up for stream entry if I am patient and relaxed? Thats the theory – If anyone is reading this and sees it differently, please set me straight if I have this all wrong.

So over the past week, I have been getting to 4th jhana routinely and spending up to an hour there, watching whatever happens. Improvement is there where last night I was able to get into 4th jhana within a couple of minutes of starting the sit. The itching pin pricks on my face are far less or non-existent presumably because I am passing through these nanas too quickly for them to be experienced fully?

So its getting easier to get up to 4th Jhana and abide there. It brings me to thinking about the hardness of the jhana – if this were a really hard jhana it might make it harder to shift across to 11th nana and back again – so maybe being in a softer jhana is a good thing – it all seems like a wholesome organic process at this point that is unfolding naturally. It may be that my struggling experiences over the past weeks has resulted from me trying to solidify Jhanas and thus experiencing the Dukkha nanas more fully as I was dwelling at certain points ‘on the ladder’?

Lots of questions! Guess I will keep practicing and the truth of things will become clearer.

Really appreciate any input on this stuff as I am kind of feeling my way and clearly not so smart with it, its pretty funny as I watch myself stumbling through this stuff

Rod



March 4, 2013 at 5:23 am #1402

Rod1
Member
Update 04/03/2013

This is really a log of the last few days and freaky stuff that has happened. I will be concise

* Saturday.....Had a good instruction session with Kenneth – discussing a practice I was looking at of broad-scape noticing (as distinct from noting) where I was trying to notice all things around me at once constantly as a means of mopping up all thought bandwidth during the day at work, in meetings etc.
* So for the rest of Saturday I walked about trying out this expanded awareness above and beyond my head/body – typically over the top and out the back of my head (similar to how I try to move towards 4th Jhana)
* I found this quite easy to do and it resulted in an unfamiliar feeling by the end of the day, almost Euphoric.
* At night I was at the computer reading up on things Buddhist as usual and I came across The Recognition of Cessation (Nirodhasaññā) where the Buddha describes how the self isn’t this and that. It seemed easy for me to think this through and it really resonated with me (I have read this before but this time seemed to mean more) so that by the time I was about to meditate for the evening I was highly charged with energy to be free of the suffering of self and I really ‘got’ why I wanted to be free of that etc. and really wanted it (under no illusions that I was going to get it anytime soon).
* So I started meditating, in Shamata jhanas as usual – go through 1,2,3 and get to 4 and stabilise, watch and understand. Was proving to be a good sit. Then things got weird…
* I hung on 2nd jhana for a while then continued to 3rd and had started to settle in 4th and then started to watch the flickering in my eyes (usually watch that and try to figure out how I might be able to see behind it – whats there when the ‘light is off’ but its all pretty fast. Suddenly, I was overtaken by this big rush of tingling and vibration (very much like a really strong 2nd jhana) but I was in 4th Jhana? My breathing was fast and laboured as I sat there trying to experience it without falling over. It passed after a few minutes I guess.
* I then moved to my bed and lay down. Started meditating again – same method. It was a struggle to get past 3rd Jhana and I spent alot of time fiddling around the edge of 4th and decided to start watching phenomena anyway – focused on the flickering in the eyes and then became aware that I could ‘hear’ flickering too ever so slightly. I focused in on that and the eye flickering at the same time – the normal buzzing in my ears was arranging into audio ‘flickering’, fascinated at this. At that point I reached a short but stable state (like a jhana) where the whole visual field solidified into a TV screen of interference snow – very consistent and vibrating. Then it was gone. I kept going and it happened again. I was tired after that and went to sleep
* Additionally during both meditation sessions there was this really fast flash of black – like one of those subliminal images that flashes up on the screen of some movies except this was all black/nothing. Weird.
* Next morning I felt like I was hungover – so tried to get to 4th Jhana to relax and do nothing and achieved that.
* I felt edgy and hungover all day, but got some relief with a small sit with little effort mid afternoon. A headache tab would probably have fixed it I guess.
* That night was a good sit reaching 4th jhana territory and stabilising.
* Next day felt tired but basically happy with good sits.
* Noticed that my concentration and ability to get into Jhanas was better. All week I have been able to get to 4th Jhana and ‘surf’ between different Jhanas pretty much at will.
* When in 4th Jhana – I try to expand my awareness that results in lots of tingling on the crown of my head. Not sure I am getting into 5th Jhana - I seemed to hit this barrier as if ‘my mind couldn’t get out of my skull’ feeling
* Otherwise, all has been pretty stable after that with 2 meditations a day. I have backed off noting (wasn’t much good at it anyway) but will start it up again.
- Is this just surfing around the Dukkha Nana’s?
- Was there an A&P event in there or just a strong (and unexpected) 2nd Jhana?
- I am still trying to see sense in it.
- Or was it just one of those inexplicable weird meditation experiences that just happens?

Welcome any opinions on this.
By the way, my wife thinks I am crazy

16/03/13 - log update
Sits have been consistent through the past couple of weeks and have been unaffected by daily stresses etc which used to be the case. Trying out a 'second sleep' experiment when possible ideally to use a couple of hours in the middle of the night if awake, on sitting or contemplating rather than just churning and stressing. Early days but seems possible so far. Fatigue is an issue but more due to work - I sleep soundly and I have been waking up naturally in the middle of the night after a couple of hours sleep feeling like it was 8 hours or more. So seeing where that all goes.

Most notable experience has been reflecting on any lasting effects of a extraordinary experience I had a couple of weeks ago - one described in previous entry above. Since then, getting into Jhanas has been quicker and easier and I find my daily mood state is more equanimous and detached from whatever is going on around me. I have been trying to remember the sequence of events during that experience but twice during that night once on the cushion and once lying down I experienced minute instants of blackness - like a blink or subliminal black scene flashing before my eyes - notable for how different it was to all the rest of what was going on and how uniformed and fast. Never seen that before.
More curious to me was that as I woke up this morning (Saturday) it happened again, I wasn't meditating just waking up and was conscious just about to get out of bed and this blink happened again. I felt excited after it with a flush of tingling but nothing extreme, just a little flush of excited curiosity since it was so unique and was the same as had happened twice a couple of weeks ago. Not sure what this is but will see if it happens again. I am not particularly prone to wild experiences and witnessing supernatural events etc, no visions or alien visitations etc so for something like this to happen is high on my weird -o-meter but happy to accept it might just be in the 'weird stuff from meditating' bag. Interested to see if anyone else has had this and what it might be.
I know, I know - 'just keep practicing!'

17/03/13
I decided to post on this log more frequently to record more definition on what I am experiencing to confirm or refute if I have gotten stream entry or not. I had about an hour sit last night which was my usual Jhana surf and watching sensations and phenomena whilst in 4th Jhana. I focussed in on the strobing as agreed with Kenneth in yesterday's instruction. The strobing as always been there but looking for any change in rate or discontinuity.

This morning managed to meditate to for about 2.5 hours mostly sitting in 4th Jhana but seemed to get into other deeper states but might just be deeper 4th. Experienced a funny reality 'warp' leading to a reduction in background thoughts and clearer vision field but was different to the blackouts although had more of a 'reset' quality to it. Might have been just shifting between mind strata. No blink-outs in these sits.

Generally, I have always had strobing in my closed field of awareness and for the past few months always had tingling and been able to induce low Jhana factors (Piti, Sukkha) anytime. Over the past 2 weeks, I have been more detached from emotions and stresses, and its been easier to get into Jhanas and move up and down. A&P has been hard to identify for me as I always go through 2nd Jhana which to me feels very similar. So I am not sure if I am cycling through the whole thing every time I meditate or not - at some point during every session I usually get intense itchy spots on my face that come and go - like passing through a layer (which Kenneth identified as 3rd Nana) so I know that somewhere through my meditation I am passing through 3rd Nana. By the end of my sits, I am almost always in 4th Jhana which is equivalent to 11th Nana but really am not sure if from that it can be said I am getting 11th nana or not. This stuff is really confusing..for me at least.

Keep reporting in as much detail as possible, Rod. These landmarks are easier to diagnose on hindsight. Try sitting for 45 minutes or an hour without any agenda whatsoever and just passively observe what is going on. Write down detailed notes immediately after the sitting. See if there is a recognizable sequence of events. Do this each day and over time a picture is likely to emerge.

Thanks Kenneth. Really appreciate your advice - will do.

1) Non-Jhana meditation undertaken for 65 mins (kneeling with seiza chair on cushion). No objective other than watching breath and identifying any sensations or phenomena arising. Began with tingling energy which settled quickly. Consistent rate of increasing stillness and concentration. Occasional thought strings developing and noticed associated muscle tensions in arm, hand and legs on different occasions. Achieved deep still level of concentration. Noticed that external noises were more startling than when in Jhana meditation. Most notable phenomena was about half way through meditation a change occurred commencing with light appearing to the right of the field of vision modifying field of vision from randomly appearing and disappearing strobing shapes to a consistent field (similar to snowy TV screen) but not as tightly grouped. The emergence of this phenomenon was accompanied by a significant increase in breathing rate. This continued for a short time as a stable state and then gradually disappeared with breathing returning to very low level –same as before the phenomenon occurred.

2) Jhana meditation undertaken for 2 hours (lying down). No objective other than to reach 4th jhana and identify any sensations or phenomena arising. Approached 4th jhana directly rather than taking 12&3 due to the fact that I was already in strong concentration and it was most similar to 4th jhana. Took a little time to find stable strata. Once found, very quickly shifted to a very wide open level naturally (in fact I was inadvertently stopping it by trying to hold the strata I was in, then let go) which was very euphoric from the awareness of being part of a massive space – this was very stable and I took this to be 5th jhana and recognised I had been here only once before and not for very long. After considerable time there, another shift occurred to a stratum that was hard to describe – whilst expansive it was more complex and I was not sure what characteristics to look at. Towards the end of the session, it appeared that I moved back to 4th or something less absorbed. At this point I stopped the session.

3) I wasn’t going to post this experience up as it was so weird, real and sounds insane that I was embarrassed but over the past couple of days since it happened, I thought I should record it because it was such a BIG experience and I can only deduce that it was an A&P event.
Straight after these meditation sessions (described above) it was late and I lay down to go to sleep but was not tired. Suddenly I found myself in an experience where I was awake with what could be described as bolts of energy being fired into the top/back of my heard (it was so intense that the spot where they were hitting was burning) followed by very strong vibratory energy in a long line shooting up and down my body increasing then decreasing in rate of vibration and sound (almost techno mechanical sounds corresponding to the energy vibrations). Really intense energy that was almost too much to handle. It felt neither good or bad. I felt no fear or happiness or stress. These two events were all consuming and occurred in sequence over and over. Due to the nature of the energy and the sounds and there was a feeling that I was being ‘rebuilt’ – my body actually felt like a car being built or serviced by industrial robots! There were other energy related things happening which I can’t exactly remember but after a while of experiencing this, I was able to move my head and I looked up (was lying on my side during all this) and a ‘being’ (person/female) dull white glow was sitting on the bed next to me smiling and let me know that it was done, there were sexual undertones to this being. I came out of it and looked at the clock and 15 minutes had passed. I didn’t sleep for the rest of the night but it was because I wasn’t tired – I felt intrigued and reviewed the experience but wasn’t freaked out. The next day I was fine, not tired at all and very calm and equanimous but not spaced out and was able to function normally at work. Today I felt really calm and the normal mental chatter and internal emotional stressed responding to what happens through the day were either gone or greatly reduced – actually I feel really good but in a balance and calm and relaxed way.

Update 20/0313
Over the last couple of days I have been feeling very calm and balanced. Noticeably reduced mental chatter (although not completely gone). I have not been noting much - the mental activity that constituted alot of contemplation around questioning sensations, noting etc is not there as much. So whatever the case, so far there has been a shift. Not sure if its permanent or not. So I will conciously start noting and questioning again through the day. Last night I meditated for about 1.5 hours (45 minutes sitting and the rest lying down until falling asleep). I went up through jhanas but was not very focussed. Got to 4th but was pretty scattered and couldn't do much insight. There were also some other levels or strata experienced but not sure what they were - maybe different levels of 4th but definately more expansive and 'light'.
THis morning woke up at 4.30 am so was able to meditate lying down till 7.00 when I got up. Its always hard to wake the mind up enough to meditate but this morning it was not as hard as usual. I went though the jhanas up to 4 but moved to another state (probably 5) and stabilised - very expansive and feeling light. Through this time there were some shifts that suggested other levels but not sure - not distinct differences. One glitchy event which was a little similar to the black blips I had over the past couple of weeks but not the same. Trying to watch the strobing - there were 'visual' shapes forming and dissolving as usual and they were strobing but there was more evidence of the snowy TV screen look to things where there were lots of individual points strobing around and behind the shapes. Was hard to tell if the rate of strobing was changing or evidence of intermittent strobing but all in all this was different territory. Definitely a intrigued and excited by the weird phenomena that has occurred over the past couple of weeks. Things are definitely different than they were but just not sure what is happening. Its harder because I have used jhanas meditation since I started so not sure what nanas (if any) I am progressing through - the good part is that I have not experienced Dark Night in any noticeable way, the bad part is I haven't experienced any nanas in any noticeable way but some progress is occurring - maybe I have just reached the start! That would be a dark joke but if thats the case, then at least I would realise it and adjust views accordingly. Either way, it has been interesting with little blackout blips and mind blowing experiences etc, I feel calm and less stressed and less subject to emotional rollercoaster so whatever the stage I have been at over the past couple of weeks, it is good now and thats worth it.

Log update 21/03/13
Sat last night for 1.5 hours (45 mins on cushion, and 45 mins lying down). Difficult session due to very agitated and erratic energy prevailing. Started off with very strong concentration getting into solid 1-2 jhana within a few breaths of sitting but then gradually the energy became more unbalanced and disharmonious so that I could not hold in any jhana for long and spent most of the session struggling. Lots of energy going in different directions and high amount of variance in intensity – not comfortable – watched it for a while. Stopped session once I realised it was not going to achieve anything by fighting it.

This morning meditated from 4am to 6.50am lying down. Started very lightly as I was assuming the disharmony was still there. I found that 3rd jhana was easiest to stabilise in so I stayed there for a while which helped a lot and then things settled significantly so I continued to 4th jhana and then another state that I assume is 5th jhana(?) not sure but whatever it is, it was lighter than 4th, more open and expansive, very stable and easy to do insight from. Once there I noted all sensations etc. Most notable sensation was a blackout blip or a glitch and whatever it was, it was followed by a little rush of tingles but it was so quick. Also went through a stage of intense facial itchiness in spots which subsided fairly quickly but was quite intense. I started noting again once I got out of bed – in shower, eating breakfast etc. but its patchy. A slower day at work today so I am able to look at more noting and observer/watcher technique and updating log in free moments.

Generally feeling more motivated to do daily practice than I have over the past couple of weeks where I have been feeling great but not really interested to do practice beyond sitting (there was a sense of taking a break after reaching something - but maybe I was just needing a break anyway)

I see that in previous posts you are labelling mind states as desirable and undesirable. Do you also notice them as they happen? Do you try to dispassionately notice the label you attach to those mind states?

I could not hold in any jhana for long and spent most of the session struggling

Vipassana and samatha can go hand in hand. If the mind can't be tamed to do samatha and you find yourself repeatedly drawn to objects other than your chosen object, struggling for too long can undermine your motivation. I think it's more productive to switch to noti(ci)ng the objects that the mind is drawn to, than to continue to struggle.
Some other times, when doing vipassana, you may feel exhausted from following the mind to all the places it goes. Then, a gentler vipassana technique might be useful, or just resting in the breath, to prevent the mind from scattering. Sometimes following the breath can feel like a chore, and some other times it can feel like a refuge. See if you can identify those moments, on or off the cushion, and abide in the breath.

Stopped session once I realised it was not going to achieve anything by fighting it.

Before stopping any session out of frustration, it might be useful to give it an extra 5 minutes while investigating the frustration and its cause. Even if the session was a samatha one.

Hi Nick,

Thanks for your comments and advice - its very helpful. Using jhanas alot, can definitely narrow ones focus to only what is happening in and around jhana states rather than the bigger picture. I will take this on board and develop further. It is becoming more evident that working with what is available at the time is more useful than frustrations etc associated with trying to get to what is not available. I am finding more that the territory around jhana states is just as useful as being in them for insight especially when alternating between concentration and insight in a session. I take your point that there is also insight value in investigating the reasons and motivations behind where one chooses to be or can't be within a session as well. Thanks will reflect and incorporate.