Rod's Practice Journal

[NickP]

Yeah, sounds like Path. The next few days will probably clear things up. Whatever it is, it's a gold mine of insight and my hat's off to you for your determination.

Stream Entry and depersonalisation experiences don't necessarily go hand in hand, neither implies the other although they do come together in many cases. If this isn't path, chances are that the old self will come back and things will feel the same after a while. If this is path, you will become more and more sure as time passes, even if the sense of self comes back in some form.

Stream Entry and perceived blips don't necessarily go hand in hand, neither implies the other although they do come together in many cases.

As an example, I perceived a blip during meditation followed by a couple days feeling that the self had vanished months before getting first path. The way I figured it hadn't been path was seeing the sense of self come back intact a few days later. When I did reach first path, I didn't notice any blip at that time, and the relationship with the self changed in a less blunt way -- in that it's now obvious that thoughts aren't self, can't be self and could never have been self, but I never felt depersonalised as that earlier time.

My experience is that in Review, the practice takes care of itself, both in intensity and technique. "You" don't have that much of a say.

[Rod1]

Thanks Nick, your experience here is very helpful because I am being cautious with my assessment here. I also had blips just before the A&P (which I thought I already had) so its all pretty confusing. So as you said the next few days will be interesting and instructive. I keep looking at the blank where the self was to check and its still not there but lets see. It would appear I am into equanimity since the dukkha symptoms seem to have passed so that is helpful. I will practice on. Another 'interruption would be helpful and telling but that would be too easy wouldn't it

[Rod1]

Log Entry 20/05/13
Meditated last night for 60 mins sitting then lying down for about 40 mins. Started the sit watching breath as the anchor and watching sensations. Started with what I think was an A&P (It was like a really bubbly 2nd jhana that was softer and ran a course without my effort). Normally piti and sukkha have always been bubbling away close to the surface for me but in this case it just happened and sustained itself for a while then we jumped to some itching and turbulent stuff. Various forms of this ensued for a while and then settled down. But I was also aware of lots of energy movement with visual field occasionally shaking like a camera being moved. It was the big sharp turbulence of the dukkha nanas, just lots of movement like something was being digested. I tried to drop into jhanas and managed the 2nd and 3rd but the 4th was just not going to happen - things were going their own way. I then lay down and continued with similar experience. I went to sleep and slept well till 6.00am. Meditated till 7.00. The same moving around of energies and non sequential stages with a period of the finest equanimity just happening in their somewhere. My effort to get into any jhanas at this point was almost going agains the process, or thats how it felt. I also watched for fruitions and still have yet to experience another after the first and possible second on Saturday night. I guess this lack of repeatability so far places some doubt in my mind as to if I had got stream entry. But what I am experiencing is nothing like anything before, even the dukkha nanas and yet all these stages seem to be there although I am not sure they are sequential. Is this the cycling that people talk of? Is cycling meant to be in sequence or just general jumping around the nanas? I am not used to experience the nanas as my jhana approach pretty much muted their appearance except for the really obvious sensations so I don't really know. I very much get the feeling that things are doing their own thing. I keep checking for the connection to self and still its not there, still a blank. I wonder if it just needs some time for things to arrange themselves and the features of this state will then become clear and more functional.

Today at work was one of the most contented I have ever had. I was fascinated as I sat and met with people and was able to calmly interact with no affect reaction or running self focussed commentary internally. Absolutely wonderful. Sitting at my computer I was surprised to start an A&P at will which actually surprised me as it developed into a rich tingly bubbly sensations and once again sustained for quite a while and I had to cut it short. I was able to do this a couple of times. This is new.
The day was notable but the solid contentment I had - not excitement or over happy, just big contentment. If this were all that happened, from my limited perspective, it would still be worth the effort so far. Everyone should do this I kept checking if the self connection was there and it wasn't. I watched my reactions and feelings when interacting with people and it was calm. How much mental and emotional energy must we be saving by not having this connection to self I wonder.

Practice-wise I am not sure what the best course is - do I keep noting? I expect meditation is a bare minimum. As always, advice is very welcome. I had better stop rambling like an idiot now

[Rod1]

Log Update 21/05/13

Walking meditation last night for 65 mins. Concentration was strong and moved awareness to movement as change as now. Taking a panoramic awareness of all movement at once. Lots of odd little sensations throughout. Once back home, meditated sitting for 60 mins and then lying down for 80 mins. The purpose of this evening's practice was to try an replicate the night of suspected stream entry. Whilst sitting I watched breath till quite concentrated then tried jhanas up to 4th which were strong and easy. Once in 4th I sat and watched. Not much happened so I dropped out of 4th jhana and just watched. I started to see that I was in the dukha nanas evidenced by a slight headache and jumpy vibrations and intense itch on my face that came and went. Soon after it seemed I moved into equanimity then there was what seemed a build up, then a sudden drop and then whip back of energy. It was quick and I wasn't sure if this was a fruition or a near miss or what. I continued and this happened a couple more times. So I kept going then the next minute found my head had dropped and I was jerking it back up with a blank in between, then found myself with all the tingles and bubbly vibrations of A&P. I continued to watch and moved through a fairly non-descript stage (dissolution I presume) then into the dukkha nanas with headache and jumps vibrations etc then on to equanimity and then another dip and onto A&P again. I went through this quite a few times. Finally I could see what people talked about with 'cycling'! Each cycle was taking about 20 -30 mins. So the 'pea soup' of the day before had started to pull itself together and was only dimly aware of then, was much clearer and sequential now. An of course I checked for connection to self and still find a blank. Went off to sleep at about 1AM then woke at 5.00 and meditated again watching. Things were slow to start but eventually and A&P turned up and the cycling continued with a dip at the end of each. Finished at 6.30

Today at work was in a meeting all morning not requiring much of my input so I started to look within to watch my reactions to the conversation etc comparing to how it used to look last week and how different my reactions might be and saw a very calm baseline that was relatively unaffected by what was going on. Very little commentary and it wasn't about me. Then I became aware of the cycling and started to watch that. It was subtle but definitely happening. BY the end of the meeting I had watched 4 cycles with 4 fruitions (I presume this is what they are). It was amazing to watch this in waking time through the day. I didn't know this was possible. This afternoon was harder to see because I was alot more active and concentrating on specific work things. So from this I guess I can confirm stream entry has occurred. I guess a question here is how long does this cycling go for - is this how it is forever? How does this become another path? Is it different to pre-stream entry path? Will I have to drive the practice or will it continue to do its own thing from here? Of course I am sure mileage varies from one to another person.

[Rod1]

Log Update 22/05/2013
Sitting meditation last night for 50 minutes, then lying down for about 45 mins. No jhanas, just watching the cycling and noting the stages and characterstics of the nanas as I pass through them. Trying not to will anything, just letting it take its own path. Fruitions vary in intensity each time. Cycling is about 20 minutes duration. Started to relax on checking for connection to self. Woke up at 1.30 am feeling like I had slept 8 hours (this happened pre stream as well) then watched the cycling for a while which took a little while to become evident then fell asleep. Woke at 5.00am and meditated watching cycling again, no jhanas, and noted characteristics until 7.00am.

Today at work, another long meeting in which I was able to watch the cycle and fruitions in the background. I guess this will where off but its quite fascinating to watch. Not sure how long this stage will last and also not sure what happens between this and picking up the next path. Advice would be appreciated on what generally might happen next.

[Russell]

Advice would be appreciated on what generally might happen next.

Who knows? Be with that, and keep reporting here.

Do you have a teacher? I thought you mentioned you talked to Ron, but I can't remember. If you want to talk sometime over Skype, even if just over IM, there are many on here willing to chat. I think it's always good to talk to people who have been through it. PM me if you feel like it sometime.

[Rod1]

Hi Russel,
Thanks for your reply. Yes Kenneth has been my instructor and he has replied to my email from Sunday now and will try to arrange a catch up session and hopefully have some questions answered. I am not deeply worried as this cycling is very clear and persistent with blips or dips occurring at the end of each cycle. Its been going for the past 3 days after an initial period of mixed sensations. I don't want to be too presumptuous here but I can't see what else this could be - whatever it is it has led to some seriously different territory that had big impacts on me since the interruption on Saturday night. Given the time difference between here and US, UK etc its hard to link up to people for a conversation or text. Anyway, thanks and I will keep going and keep practicing just in case I have am still pre-stream entry.

[Rod1]

Log update 23/05/2013
Last night sat meditated for 50 minutes lying down. Watched cycling and noted varying rates and different fruition intensities. Cycling dominates the sits as this continual routine of moving from A&P up to eqquanimity just keeps going. Tried to do some jhanas over that and they are much stronger and instant than before. Tried to get into 5th jhana but not sureabout the rest so need some practice. Since I have always had acces to the material 4 I would have thought that access to the next 4 would be possible now. So will be experimenting with this.
This morning woke up at 4.30 and watched cycling till 6.00. Noticed that this morning the rate had increased to 5 minutes per cycle. This slowed down through the day to about 20 mins. Watched on and off cycling through the day. Took a flight this afternoon and watched cycling through the flight. Its as if I am meditating through the day without trying to. Interesting. Mind is alot quieter and stable with less commentary and still no self connection found.

[Rod1]

Log Update 24/05/2013
Took flight yesterday afternoon for work trip so meditated on flight watching cycling through nanas. Meditated last night for 60 mins lying down. Watched cycling for half and then experimented with jhanas 1-4 which are stronger and easier to reach than before. Then tried to access formless jhanas but fell asleep. Woke up this morning at 4.20 and meditated lying down. Watched breath until cycling was clearer to perceive. I have noticed that increasing concentration brings greater definition in the different steps in the cycling. So after about 40 mins doing this and watching for any variation or new phenomena in the cycling compared with the last few days (there wasn't) I tried to access the formless jhanas again. Not skilled yet at getting into these jhanas - not sure what to look for and good technique however, I was definitely able to get into very expansive states - greater than I have reached before even when I thought I was accessing 5th jhana. So not sure if I was travelling through several of the formless jhanas or just hovering around one of them and not sure which one - its all pretty expansive and subtle. So with practice I guess what I am reaching will become clearer similar to when I was trying to develop the first 4 jhanas I guess.
This afternoon had cancelled meeting so got back to hotel room early and meditated lying down for 70 mins. Returned to expansive jhanas again to investigate further. Looking for patterns, recurring sensations etc, and probably need to read some more about what people report about them too. After that I returned to watching the cycling and also checked for the blank space where self was connected. There is still uncertainty about whether I really have permanently shifted in a stream entry way or if its just a temporary state that will revert soon. I guess this will pass with time if no reversion occurs. So far, once the 'dust ' of the shift settled, the new territory has been consistent and solid. Acceptance and surrender come to mind here. Its been an amazing week since Saturday night when 'all hell broke loose' and even the part of self that seems to have been discoonected in this experience has given me a taste of how much more contented one could get from reduced self and that has been amazing and worth working for to disconnect or diminish the self more completely.

[Rod1]

Log Update 27/05/2013

Travelling for business last week and whilst there visiting my mum over the weekend. We finally spread Dad's ashes at a beautiful rocky point jutting out into the sea - a favourite place of his and mum's and as per his wishes as a surfer and lifesaver. A beautiful mild subtropical winter's day, off shore breeze that carried them far before settling on the azure textured surface as nearby surfers rode generous spray crested waves.

Managed to get at least 2 sits in per day and also on the flight home and other opportunities in transit. its averaged 60 minutes each. Cycling through nanas continued over the past 3 days now over a week since significant shift which started this new stage of experience. It conforms to typical descriptions of Stream Entry. Although I am now getting used to the sense of being disconnected to the self (or at least part of it) and the cycling, it is still very distinct and it has not diminished since it started. Cycling rates vary. Practice over the past few days has consisted of watching the nanas to become familiar with them and the fruition dips at the end of each cycle. I have also kept up jhana practice, which whilst in the jhanas and for a while after, mutes my ability to watch the nanas but I don't want to drop concentration skills as I am sure they will be useful moving forward. I have also been exploring formless jhana territory although I am not sure what I am looking for exactly. Just getting into very expansive states and letting mind settle in stable states and trying to figure out what that is if anything. I am sure with practice, they will become more evident and controllable. Noting seems easier but I have dropped it off over the past week so am starting that up again as well. Basically, the holiday is over and its time to make use of this review by trying to learn from it and keeping the practice up so that I am ready for whatever happens next and won't be floundering around trying to regain concentration etc.

Brings me to this morning. Woke up at 4.30 and meditated for 2 hrs lying down. Spent the first hour watching and noting nana cycling and fruition dips, watching for the points between one nana and the next. I noticed that the Dukkha nanas present as a period of big and erratic energy and tension in the head etc. I am not able to tell them apart from each other, then equanimity settles it down and very shortly after a dip and back to A&P. After this I started to intersperse jhanas and nanas - so when A&P started, I jumped to 1st then second jhana, then back to A&P then things moved to dissolution so letting that develop, I jumped to 3rd jhana, then back to dissolution, then dukkha nanas, then equanimity and quickly to 4th jhana before the fruition dip, but it seemed to happen anyway (albeit muted through the jhana) so after a couple of times of that, I stayed in 4th jhana and then explored expanded formless jhana territory (I think) before ending the meditation.